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How Republican Presidents become informed
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Old and Haggard
Feb 19, 06 4:25
Post #1 of 20 (309 views)
How Republican Presidents become informed
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Reagan had astrologers, Bush has Crichton. How pathetic.
WASHINGTON, Feb. 18 — One of the perquisites of being president is the ability to have the author of a book you enjoyed pop into the White House for a chat.
Over the years, a number of writers have visited President Bush, including Natan Sharansky, Bernard Lewis and John Lewis Gaddis. And while the meetings are usually private, they rarely ruffle feathers.
Now, one has.
In his new book about Mr. Bush, "Rebel in Chief: Inside the Bold and Controversial Presidency of George W. Bush," Fred Barnes recalls a visit to the White House last year by Michael Crichton, whose 2004 best-selling novel, "State of Fear," suggests that global warming is an unproven theory and an overstated threat.
Mr. Barnes, who describes Mr. Bush as "a dissenter on the theory of global warming," writes that the president "avidly read" the novel and met the author after Karl Rove, his chief political adviser, arranged it. He says Mr. Bush and his guest "talked for an hour and were in near-total agreement."
"The visit was not made public for fear of outraging environmentalists all the more," he adds.
And so it has, fueling a common perception among environmental groups that Mr. Crichton's dismissal of global warming, coupled with his popularity as a novelist and screenwriter, has undermined efforts to pass legislation intended to reduce emissions of carbon dioxide, a gas that leading scientists say causes climate change.
Mr. Crichton, whose views in "State of Fear" helped him win the American Association of Petroleum Geologists' annual journalism award this month, has been a leading doubter of global warming and last September appeared before a Senate committee to argue that the supporting science was mixed, at best.
"This shows the president is more interested in science fiction than science," Frank O'Donnell, president of Clean Air Watch, said after learning of the White House meeting. Mr. O'Donnell's group monitors environmental policy.
"This administration has put no limit on global warming pollution and has consistently rebuffed any suggestion to do so," he said.
Not so, according to the White House, which said Mr. Barnes's book left a false impression of Mr. Bush's views on global warming.
Michele St. Martin, a spokeswoman for the Council on Environmental Quality, a White House advisory agency, pointed to several speeches in which Mr. Bush had acknowledged the impact of global warming and the need to confront it, even if he questioned the degree to which humans contribute to it.
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Ken Lehner
"reread klenher [sic] and pretty much skip the rest." - desert dude 5/25/2008
spot
Feb 19, 06 5:25
Post #2 of 20 (298 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [klehner]
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Have you read the book? Its actually pretty good. It raises a lot of questions. The interesting thing to me is that whenever I hear that book put down by scientists who support global warming, they don't offer anything specific. All they say is that he "cherry-picked" the data. But that's pretty vague and the data he presents is pretty compelling. I would like to hear a point by point refutation of why his data isn't representative, rather than just a lot of ranting.
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
Old and Haggard
Feb 19, 06 7:40
Post #3 of 20 (279 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [spot]
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Enjoy: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74
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Ken Lehner
"reread klenher [sic] and pretty much skip the rest." - desert dude 5/25/2008
spot
Feb 19, 06 8:40
Post #4 of 20 (263 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [klehner]
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That was a pretty good article...I definitely learned more about the science behind the theories. I did note, however, that they conspicuously chose one weather station to talk about showing a cooling trend...the book shows data (and not just until the '70s...up until today) from all over the world.
Let me just say I don't buy everything in Crichton's book, just like I don't buy everything being told to me by the Global Warming crowd. For example, no one still has a clue what causes the earth's climate to change rapidly...it happened in the past (as shown to us by ice cores from Greenland that go back 300,000 years), just like it is happening now. Now, readings from ice cores from Antarctica seem to show that there is a direct correlation between CO2 levels and temperature...but what they don't know is this: whether or not the CO2 caused the temperature rise, or whether the temperature rise caused the levels of CO2 to rise. Because clearly, there have been periods well before man was on the scene where the temperature went both up and down much faster than even today
The other big sticking point in the whole argument is this: the US and Europe could stop producing CO2 tomorrow (and wreck their economies at the same time, I might add), and the rapidly growing populations and economies of India and China would more than make up for it. This was the whole reason most people were against Kyoto...it didn't address China or India.
Where I part company with Crichton is that he seems to be saying that there is no Global Warming at all...just look at these graphs. But that doesn't jive with even my own personal experience. Its no big secret to those of us who grew up in the North during the '70s that the winters then were much more severe than they are now...clearly there is something happening. What is causing it, though, is another matter...
Spot
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
jtaylor1O24
Feb 19, 06 8:49
Post #5 of 20 (262 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [spot]
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I would like to hear a point by point refutation of why his data isn't representative, rather than just a lot of ranting.
How about this for a start: the author himself files the book under FICTION! If you are willing to believe fiction as fact then you should check out Jurrasic Park. That one will really blow your mind on the extinction theory of dinosaurs.
Seriously though, you don't have to look very hard to find what you are looking for in your comment above. If you are at all interested here are some papers that might be worth reading before you make up your mind based on a science fiction thriller (including non-ranting point by point refutation unlike my comment above)
Summary for Policymakers: written by 122 Authors, 515 Contributing Authors, 21 Review Editors and 420 Expert Reviewers.
http://www.grida.no/...ipcc_tar/wg1/005.htm
MICHAEL CRICHTON AND GLOBAL WARMING: by David B. Sandalow -
http://www.brookings.edu/...sandalow20050128.pdf
Michael Crichton’s State of Confusion: Dr. Gavin A Schmidt, climatologist at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies -
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=74
Checking Crichton's footnotes: By Chris Mooney -
http://www.boston.com/...crichtons_footnotes/
Crichton's Thriller State of Fear: Separating Fact from Fiction by the Union of Concerned Scientists -
http://go.ucsusa.org/...page.cfm?pageID=1670
Answers to Key Questions Raised by M. Crichton in State of Fear:
http://www.pewclimate.org/state_of_fear.cfm
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Don't hold back
JT
Reduce your carbon footprint - burn less stuff,
http://www.carbonfund.org
Don't complain, just work harder. - Randy Pausch
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spot
Feb 19, 06 9:11
Post #6 of 20 (248 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [jtaylor1024]
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Let's see, I'm pretty sure in my original post I never said I believed everything Crichton said, just that it raised interesting questions that I had not seen well answered. So your comment about the dinos was really sort of annoying.
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
stl_triness
Feb 19, 06 9:16
Post #7 of 20 (246 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [spot]
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Make no mistake, if Chricton's fictional book argued that humans (especially Republicans) were in fact changing the Earth's climate (hah!), then he would embraced and validated by those that are now goofing on him.
jtaylor1O24
Feb 19, 06 9:20
Post #8 of 20 (245 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [spot]
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So your comment about the dinos was really sort of annoying.
i know...i even included a standard rant disclaimer. :)
the statement wasn't directed at you, rather the concept. The book is a fictional scientific thriller and should be read as such. Much like Jurrassic Park Crichton does a great job of mixing fact and fiction to tell a convincing and gripping story. My point is, it's scarey having books like that influence public opinion on scientific topics (let alone if they are used to make any sort of policy decision).
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Don't hold back
JT
Reduce your carbon footprint - burn less stuff,
http://www.carbonfund.org
Don't complain, just work harder. - Randy Pausch
stl_triness
Feb 19, 06 9:34
Post #9 of 20 (239 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [jtaylor1024]
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I thought the spin was that W couldn't read? Now he just reads the 'wrong' books? Look, there is no evidence that Chrictons book has framed White House environmental policy one bit. Bush has been consistant with his environmental goals since his campaigning days. Presidents frequently meet with entertainers and authors that they admire.
Oh, and fundung for research has increased 42% in just a year (that can buy a lot of Chricton novels):
A 42 Percent Increase in Climate Change Research Initiative Funding
The President’s FY 2005 budget includes $238 million for the Climate Change Research Initiative (CCRI), a $70 million, or 42 percent, increase over 2004. This funding level includes $57 million to accelerate efforts to advance understanding of the role of aerosols on climate, better quantify carbon sources, and improve the technology and infrastructure used to observe and model climate variations. The CCRI focuses on reducing significant uncertainties in climate science, improving global climate observing systems, and developing resources to support policymaking and resource management.
spot
Feb 19, 06 9:39
Post #10 of 20 (234 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [jtaylor1024]
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Roger that... :)
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
ike
Feb 19, 06 10:32
Post #11 of 20 (218 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [spot]
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Why is the development of India and China "the big sticking point"? The more that the US actually works to reduce our greenhouse emissions (and develops climate-friendly technology) the greater our ability to push, urge, cajole, threaten the Chinese and Indians. Sure, it might not work, in which case we'd still have reduced our own emissions. But, surely we would have more credibility with them if we take the lead on this issue rather than waffling on it.
ajfranke
Feb 19, 06 12:30
Post #12 of 20 (194 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [klehner]
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I can see why your are outraged, Ken. Bush read a book and spent an hour meeting with the author. This is a scandal.
Add this to the list of impeachment charges.
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This forum is going to be a place of civil discourse, and those who wish to foment hate and discord are no longer welcome here. -- slowman 11/8/04
Art Franke
spot
Feb 19, 06 13:23
Post #13 of 20 (184 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [ike]
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Because I don't believe for a second that those developing countries will do anything to harm their economies or from continuing to grow. We have absolutely no leverage when it comes to forcing or cajoling them to reduce their CO2 emissions since we (and the rest of the industrialized world) developed our economies by spewing massive amounts of GHGs into the air.
Cervelo / Kuota Mafia Member
"Mine goes to 11...."
ike
Feb 19, 06 14:41
Post #14 of 20 (173 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [spot]
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They eventually agreed to the worldwide ban on CFCs.
Apart from political and economic leverage, the world still takes a lot of its cues from the US. In many ways, through TV, the Internet, movies, etc., our culture influences other cultures. There is a fair amount of economic and cultural interchange, esp. with India. The world's superpower should not pretend that it has no power to influence others.
Even if you think that these other countries are so ruthlessly pro-growth and indifferent to the planet's future that they are utterly beyond influence (which is a rather harsh view), we can still lead the way by developing climate-friendly technology. Even purely selfish countries will adopt those technologies if they are better (lower cost, etc.) than climate-unfriendly technologies. The stuff we invent tends to spread around the world.
peter826
Feb 19, 06 16:12
Post #15 of 20 (163 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [klehner]
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So our environmental policy is dictated by a fictional work about global warming. We already knew the bible was W's blueprint for much of the rest of his agenda. What else is he reading?
slowbern
Feb 20, 06 8:37
Post #16 of 20 (128 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [jtaylor1024]
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For what it is worth, I would say that if a book is a fictional story that used scientific facts that are 100% accurate, it would still be considered fiction. For instance read some of Bernard Cornwell's books. These are considered historical fiction becasue they usually are based on fictional characters, that he invented. But the events that he is writing about are true.
I guess that I would argue that the statistics that Crichton cites are valid and true, at least as accurate as the global warming proponents facts and figures. I would contend that what makes it fiction is not the data that you don't agree with but the fact that he uses fictional characters.
Bernie
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There, Sphere, are you happy?
stl_triness
Feb 20, 06 8:41
Post #17 of 20 (125 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [slowbern]
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Well shoot. Now I have to rethink all those Carl Sagan books.
TripleThreat
Feb 20, 06 8:46
Post #18 of 20 (124 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [peter826]
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What else is he reading?
Curious George?
Somebody had to make that joke.
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As for the other stuff in the thread. Geez, talk about much ado about nothing, or people getting all wrapped up in their assumptions and the fork running away with the spoon (whatever that means). I know it's the Lavendar room, but this is even a stretch.
It's a wonder George hasn't tried to find someone to go to Iraq and curse them with locusts, frogs, and turn the water to blood, based on you read in this thread. How come no one credits Lincoln with using the Bible as his blueprint?
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-- At 211 degrees water is hot. At 212 degrees water boils. Boiling water produces steam. You can power a locomotive with steam. Will you supply the extra degree that makes all the difference? ---
jtaylor1O24
Feb 20, 06 10:38
Post #19 of 20 (94 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [slowbern]
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I see your point... However, just because some of the references may indeed be true, the language used to convince the reader to make conclusions based on those references is totally made up let alone peer reviewed, and therefore should not be mistaken for science.
----
Don't hold back
JT
Reduce your carbon footprint - burn less stuff,
http://www.carbonfund.org
Don't complain, just work harder. - Randy Pausch
(This post was
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by jtaylor1024 on Feb 20, 06 10:39)
TripleThreat
Feb 20, 06 12:35
Post #20 of 20 (74 views)
Re: How Republican Presidents become informed [jtaylor1024]
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Like the DaVinci Code?
The blending of fact and fiction to create a compelling story, but more importantly to lead to conclusions that may or may not really be there is something that were going to see more and more of.
It will be harder to separate fact from fiction, just as its becoming harder and harder to separate philosophy from science.
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-- At 211 degrees water is hot. At 212 degrees water boils. Boiling water produces steam. You can power a locomotive with steam. Will you supply the extra degree that makes all the difference? ---
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