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House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare
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big kahuna
Nov 7, 09 20:37
Post #1 of 88 (943 views)
House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare
Can't Post
220-215.
http://www.c-span.org/
Time to start donating to the 2010 opponent of every House Democrat in general and especially the Democrats who voted for this montrosity. They baked their cake and now they're going to be made to eat it, I'd say. It may not have a prayer of making it out of the Senate, but that's beside the point.
T.
big kahuna
Nov 7, 09 20:40
Post #2 of 88 (935 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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Oh, yeah...I forgot. And whoever the opponent of Ahn Cao of Louisiana will be. Even if it's a one-legged sterno bum from down by Canal Street. He's got to go down.
T.
getcereal
Nov 7, 09 21:23
Post #3 of 88 (907 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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To translate your liberal Dems. code words:
Health Care Reform" means higher taxes or fees for all Americans
"Economic Recovery" means spend like a drunken sailor
"Job Creation" means more government hacks on the federal payroll
"Protections for Consumers" means more John Edwards ambulance chasers getting rich
"Green Movement and Climate Change" means the new religion of Gorbal Warblers
""Business Regulatory Reform" means Barney Frank's buddies will continue to run Fannie Mae
"Getting Out of Iraq" means the President will wring his hands for another year while our troops die
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s down from 45% a week ago but unchanged from two weeks ago.
Fifty-four percent (54%) now oppose the legislative effort, up three points since last week.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/...9/health_care_reform
Definitly not representing the majority of Americans! VOTE THEM OUT!!!
last tri in 83
Nov 7, 09 21:52
Post #4 of 88 (890 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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I'm with you, I'm glad they pushed this POS through. It is just going to add fuel to the "1994" scenario undeway.
_____________________________________________
No one appreciates my humor anymore. --Sphere
Tri N OC
Nov 7, 09 22:41
Post #5 of 88 (871 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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Where is YaHey to talk about the mandate? 2 votes over the minimum is a mandate, right?
P.S. That is after the President and his trusty chief o' staff Rhambo spent the day on the Hill twisting arms. Seems like there may not be a lot of hope for audacity's coattails.
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Rodred
Nov 8, 09 1:25
Post #6 of 88 (855 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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Title says it all. The group cheering session as they passed this turd made my stomach turn.
oldandslow
Nov 8, 09 5:51
Post #7 of 88 (817 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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Wow, you mean that Democrats were REALLY for universal health care? How could they have possibly fooled everybody? If only we had known during the last election! Sarcasm aside, it is the issue which most clearly separates the two parties. I'm ecstatic, you're not... and that's politics. The fallout from trying to pass healthcare reform has already happened. Failure to pass anything would have been far worse politically for the Dems (demoralizing the 10's of millions who support universal health care), and this fact paradoxically helped them to pass the bill. They have crossed the Rubicon (which worked quite well the first time). Ah well, on to the Senate!
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dave_w
Nov 8, 09 6:05
Post #8 of 88 (811 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [oldandslow]
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Last I heard 39 of the 50 mil are still uninsured by this. What has been gained here, other than a feel good moment that will, if ultimately enacted, drive the country further toward bankruptcy/default?
ps. I put the pubs at fault too; they know that most Americans see a need to address spiraling healthcare costs, but their version of a bill is only now taking form.
Rodred
Nov 8, 09 6:35
Post #9 of 88 (799 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [dave_w]
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Last I heard 39 of the 50 mil are still uninsured by this.
What has been gained here
, other than a feel good moment that will, if ultimately enacted, drive the country further toward bankruptcy/default?
ps. I put the pubs at fault too; they know that most Americans see a need to address spiraling healthcare costs, but their version of a bill is only now taking form.
Power.
Helitech
Nov 8, 09 7:00
Post #10 of 88 (783 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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One quot was " it will reduce the deficit by 107 Billion "
By employing hundreds of medical staff at low wages . Charging me for
coverage on a meth head with a smokers cough (
when all he needs is a 9 mm vacation
)
They were going to post the health care bill online 72 hours before the vote .
It never happen !!!!!!
Rodred
Nov 8, 09 7:11
Post #11 of 88 (770 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Helitech]
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Hard to beleive they would lie about posting after they said it would save 107 million :)
Slowman
Nov 8, 09 8:56
Post #12 of 88 (735 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [big kahuna]
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i watched 4 or 5 hours of the debate on cspan. i was struck by the tenor and theme of the comments made by the republicans, one of which is repeatedly calling the bill the pelosi health care bill, the pelosi health care takeover, and, as you just did, pelosicare.
the bill is h.r. 3962, otherwise officially known as "affordable health care for america act," or, if naming the bill after its sponsor is your preference, that sponsor would be john dingell.
but republicans have made a hobby out of reviling nancy pelosi, so, the bill becomes "pelosicare" or "obamacare." i hope the republican party can resort more to ideas, and less to demogoguery. but, whatever floats your boat. prior to buckley in the mid-50s, conservatism was john birchers and the likeminded kooks. as the party pushes out its "elites" -- david brooks, christopher hitchens, colin powell -- sophomoric name-calling becomes the most effective tactic.
that established, you may be right. republicans are going to wait with baited breath each month, and hope that the unemployment numbers stay high. if republicans get their wish, and these numbers stay high for another 12 months, democrats will lose 25 to 40 seats and republicans will take over the house.
but if the jobs numbers turn around and we're looking pretty good by the summer, and if, like medicare, and social security, the moderates and independents understand that this bill is just another fulfillment of the social contract with our middle class, then republicans will not fare so well in november.
here's the problem for republicans, tho: if this bill passes, it becomes, like medicare and social security, and cobra, and every other "big government takeover," prized by everyone, conservatives included. how many conservatives in america are for repealing medicare or social security? where is the republican in congress campaigning for this? or introducing this bill? in fact, what republican who voted against medicare in 1965 campaigned for its repeal in 1975, or 1985?
so, it's all going to be about jobs a year from now. if unemployment is at 7.8%, republicans aren't going to gain anything in congress. if its 10.8%, they'll regain majority status.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
last tri in 83
Nov 8, 09 10:58
Post #13 of 88 (672 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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Not Pelosi's bill?? Read this adoration.
http://news.yahoo.com/...08/pl_politico/29281
_____________________________________________
No one appreciates my humor anymore. --Sphere
blueraider_mike
Nov 8, 09 11:01
Post #14 of 88 (670 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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Slowman,
Here me...HERE IS THE PROBLEM FOR AMERICANS (screw political affiliation)...the only aftermath if this becomes law is increase taxes, increased cost for healthcare and futher weakening of the USA.
You make me laugh...so easy to bash republicans, talk about sophomoric. Instead of bashing conservatives why don't you try some heavy lifting and show us all how this bill will..
- Make HC for affordable for me? Or the other 90% that have HC insurance
- How we are "really" gonna cut Medicare 400B?
- What happens when it doesn't cost just a Trillion
- Show how this will reduce the deficit again
- What about the 4% of folks who are not covered..
Shit, show us how we will be different than the EU with type of spending and get back to historical employment.
Why do you hate America?
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"At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and Means Committee, along with President Johnson, estimated that Medicare would cost an inflation-adjusted $12 billion by 1990. In 1990, Medicare topped $107 billion. That's nine times Congress' prediction. Today's Medicare tab comes to $420 billion with no signs of leveling off. How much confidence can we have in any cost estimates by the White House or Congress?" - economist Walter E. Williams
Slowman
Nov 8, 09 11:22
Post #15 of 88 (652 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [last tri in 83]
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"
Not Pelosi's bill?? Read this adoration."
it is not pelosi's bill. nancy pelosi gained a tactical victory through husbanding the bill to passage.
the republican version of health reform was not joe wilson's bill. or rush limbaugh's bill. attaching the name of a controversial personality to the bill -- having that as your debating point -- gathers around you an audience to which that sort of appeal resonates. and that's what republican house members did yesterday.
alternatively, republicans could have explained what slice of the small business community this bill will
negatively
affect, and argue, with numbers [that aren't fictitious], that this runs counter to the immediate goal of small business job growth. but, i didn't hear any of that yesterday. rather, republicans' debating tactics reminded me a lot of 8th grade.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Rodred
Nov 8, 09 11:30
Post #16 of 88 (647 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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In Reply To:
"
Not Pelosi's bill?? Read this adoration."
it is not pelosi's bill. nancy pelosi gained a tactical victory through husbanding the bill to passage.
the republican version of health reform was not joe wilson's bill. or rush limbaugh's bill. attaching the name of a controversial personality to the bill -- having that as your debating point -- gathers around you an audience to which that sort of appeal resonates. and that's what republican house members did yesterday.
alternatively, republicans could have explained what slice of the small business community this bill will
negatively
affect, and argue, with numbers [that aren't fictitious], that this runs counter to the immediate goal of small business job growth. but, i didn't hear any of that yesterday. rather, republicans' debating tactics reminded me a lot of 8th grade.
So you answered his question with your opinion, because the reality is this IS her bill. She rules with an iron fist and theyall fall in line and you know damn well if the situation were reversed that it would have a republicans name and you would be ok with that.
But I could not help but notice how you forgot to answer the questions he asked. Was that on purpose?
JSA
Nov 8, 09 11:35
Post #17 of 88 (644 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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alternatively, republicans could have explained what slice of the small business community this bill will
negatively
affect, and argue, with numbers [that aren't fictitious], that this runs counter to the immediate goal of small business job growth. but, i didn't hear any of that yesterday. rather, republicans' debating tactics reminded me a lot of 8th grade.
That is because you have remarkably selective hearing ... a trait you exhibit repeatedly on this forum as well ...
_______________________________________________
"My better is better than your better." - LT, via Nike
The people who keep me moving:
TRANSITION -
Get Moving!
Slowman
Nov 8, 09 11:42
Post #18 of 88 (641 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [blueraider_mike]
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"
Make HC for affordable for me? Or the other 90% that have HC insurance"
your rates are, as of today, rising at maybe 15% per year, while wage increases are at 0%. so we know what doesn't make HC more affordable for you: the status quo.
my guess is, the best way to make health care affordable is to move to a single payer plan, but, too much opposition to that now. certain republicans yesterday argued correctly: single payer is coming, we just can't get there now, but this bill is a gateway to single payer.
the second way is to just make you healthier (this is a longer term solution), which we do by taxing the spit out of things that make you unhealthy (which we do for cigarettes), and rewarding with government dollars the things that make you healthy. so, tax the spit out of trans fats, and take that money and fund school lunch programs that work hard to provide both nutrition and taste.
we also ought to look at tort reform. not because malpractice insurance is expensive, but because of all the defensive medicine that gets practiced.
and we ought to work on outcome-based pay models for caregivers, instead of fee-for-service.
i think probably a third of what i'm recommending is more conservative than liberal. all this will require a generation to change, and if the republicans are willing participants in this discussion, we could get down to business. but for 8 years republicans were in the position democrats are in now, and republicans didn't think it was important business. so, it's in front of us now.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Slowman
Nov 8, 09 12:20
Post #19 of 88 (615 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [JSA]
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"
That is because you have remarkably selective hearing ... a trait you exhibit repeatedly on this forum as well ..."
as a self-employed small businessman since my early 20s, i think liberals need to be kept in check though a rational, dispassionate arguments from those who value limited government. but i don't see the rational, dispassionate arguments. rather, i see a lot of anger and sneering where the dispassionate arguments should and ought to be.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
last tri in 83
Nov 8, 09 12:29
Post #20 of 88 (608 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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Dan, are you pleased with this bill? I think you fancy yourself some variety of conservative. If so, how can you be pleased with this? In the interest of covering a few people that need help we are placing the final nails in the coffin of the country formerly known as America.
This congress and president find it impossible to deal with a problem without taking to opporunity to nationalize another sector of the economy. It's very sad.
Slowman
Nov 8, 09 12:29
Post #21 of 88 (607 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Rodred]
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"
She rules with an iron fist and they all fall in line"
this is typically what speakers, and whips, do. (that's why they call them whips. they whip.) what you saw yesterday was a democratic vote tally of 219 to 39, and a republican tally of 176 to 1. john boehner and eric cantor are the house minority leader, and the republican whip, respectively. they rule with iron fists and republican house members fall in line. apparently, their fists were more iron than pelosi's, based on the vote tally. nevertheless, the republican health care bill yesterday was not the "boehner bill."
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Slowman
Nov 8, 09 12:41
Post #22 of 88 (597 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [last tri in 83]
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"
Dan, are you pleased with this bill?"
i'm nervous about this bill. but i'd have been likewise nervous about medicare when it got passed. i'm just nervous about new things in general, or about stuff that i don't know the fine details about.
but i'd be more nervous pushing this further down the road. i think, if it gets passed, then it's a starting point. the question is, will this cost small business money? or will this save small business money? i think there are good arguments on both sides.
the argument made
most often yesterday
by the republicans was, in my view, their weakest, which is that we're criminalizing the non-payment of premiums. the non-payment of FICA is criminalized. the non-payment of motor vehicle fees is criminalized. the non-payment of every single tax and tarif is criminalized.
in terms of personal behavior, i believe that everyone who can be self-sustaining should be self-sustaining, and not a burden on their communities. so, i think you should be forced to carry car insurance. i think you should be forced to carry health insurance. why? because i'm sick of subsidizing your sorry ass through my own higher rates. on balance, then, i'm happi
er
with the bill than without it.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
TBinMT
Nov 8, 09 13:01
Post #23 of 88 (587 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [last tri in 83]
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"In the interest of covering a few people that need help we are placing
the final nails in the coffin
of the country formerly known as America."
Talk about over-dramatic. In the grand scheme of things, this bill is nothing compared to about a dozen more sweeping changes made in the last 80 years. It's piddly stuff. Expensive, sure, but its just a band aide. Of course as Dan mention, conservatives offer even fewer ideas about how to keep health care from gobbling up 50% of GDP by 2020 (which the course we are headed on). Both sides are in denial and everyone is to blame.
jar1635
Nov 8, 09 13:51
Post #24 of 88 (564 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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You may not think of it as Pelosi's bill, but she would disagree with you. As would the vast majority of commentators and reporters and, well, anyone else covering or talking about it. Dingell's name is the furthest thing from most people's mind when they discuss it - but, yeah, your right it is his bill. Was that because attaching Kennedy's name to it lost favor with the dems? I thought in the wake of his death they were going to go out and win one for Teddy...or, did that not poll well? It's a nice spin, and one we will see more of in the days to come...attach the bill to the oldest representative because he probably isn't going to run for re-election.
jar1635
Nov 8, 09 13:56
Post #25 of 88 (561 views)
Re: House Dems Commit Political Suicide, Pass PelosiCare [Slowman]
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they rule with iron fists and republican house members fall in line
or they all share a common belief of what is good for this county...and this bill isn't.
apparently, their fists were more iron than pelosi's
or Pelosi stopped handing out "goodies" to "convince" her members to support this POS when she reached the vote tally she needed.
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