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Hitchens undergoes waterboarding
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last tri in 83
Jul 3, 08 8:42
Post #26 of 34 (208 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [vitus979]
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OK, I've got it. We tell the press that anything goes now, pulling off of toenails, placing of testicles in a c clamp, severe beatings, possible beheadings, you know stuff like that. Play tapes of fake screaming in the torture chamber. Throw some fake blood on the floor. We just make them think we will do it. Problem solved.
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Conservative in exile.
vitus979
Jul 3, 08 8:44
Post #27 of 34 (207 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [last tri in 83]
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We just make them think we will do it. Problem solved.
Sure. Except for the problem that everyone, including us, thinks we're a nation of torturers. That's not optimal.
"24" is a fictional television show.
"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
last tri in 83
Jul 3, 08 8:56
Post #28 of 34 (195 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [vitus979]
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No way, Jack Bauer posts on ST.
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Conservative in exile.
Casey
Jul 3, 08 8:56
Post #29 of 34 (195 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [last tri in 83]
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Ken, is there any means that you approve of to extract info from our enemies?
I realize you would support anything to ensure we are "safe" from the terrorists ready to take away our freedoms but I have a few problems with waterboarding,
First, the ever-changing definition of "our enemies", particularly when those captured have no chance to defend themselves and second, why are we suddenly trying to introduce new extraction techniques. Surely there are other methods used up to the last few years that were deemed acceptable.
Finally, since when do we base our interrogation techniques on comparing what others do? Aren't we supposed to be the nation taking the lead and standing above what the terrorists do?
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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
HUB
Jul 3, 08 9:06
Post #30 of 34 (185 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [klehner]
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O.K. I'll step in and go against the grain and say I support waterboarding.It is a non lethal form of interrogation.Lets look at the other sides of interrogation with Hamas or AQ they drag you thru the streets behead you then ask questions!
Is "non-lethal" the only thing that matters in your determination? How about applying electrodes to genitals? That okay?
non lethal no problem, electrodes to genitals no,maybe nipple clamps
And approved torture methods are relative to what others do? As long as someone does worse things, we're okay?
what the U.S. does is tame to what are enemies do.
last tri in 83
Jul 3, 08 9:07
Post #31 of 34 (184 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [Casey]
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I respect everything you said but at the same time I wonder if we tie the hands of the military a bit. I guess waterboarding seems like a gray area to me. However, if McC thinks it is torture, then I guess I should. He knows a lot more about torture than I ever will. I'm a little conflicted on this one.
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Casey
Jul 3, 08 9:11
Post #32 of 34 (177 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [last tri in 83]
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if McC thinks it is torture, then I guess I should. He knows a lot more about torture than I ever will. I'm a little conflicted on this one.
I think McCain if McCain considers it torture, our country would do well to listen to him.
__________________________________________________
You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008
Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008
Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008
Greg66
Jul 3, 08 9:43
Post #33 of 34 (162 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [HUB]
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O.K. I'll step in and go against the grain and say I support waterboarding.It is a non lethal form of interrogation.Lets look at the other sides of interrogation with Hamas or AQ they drag you thru the streets behead you then ask questions!
Killing people isn't really interrogation, is it? I mean, doesn't it kind of inhibit thesubject's ability to answer questions? So I'm not really sure what lethal forms of interrogations you're trying to distinguish here.
trio_jeepy
Jul 3, 08 13:15
Post #34 of 34 (114 views)
Re: Hitchens undergoes waterboarding [Casey]
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The problem with it, especially in the context of putting these people out of the reach of any sort of justice system, much less the US system, is that it appears everybody is presumed guilty, a position taken up by the idiot chorus in this country as well. When you are going to be tortured, and you know you're going to be tortured, how exactly does one prove one's innocence? It seems to be a system worthy of some of our less savory adversaries than that of a free democracy.
So you're in this prison, with little to no opportunity to challenge the legitimacy of your detention, a limited at best judicial process, and interrogators willing to torture you to find out information they don't know, but for some reason believe that you do. If its not apparent to everyone, there is a strange epistemological paradox there - how can you torture somebody to find out information you don't know and in fact may not even be aware of the existence of, yet be willing to torture to get? Seems rather strange, if not tragic. The irony being, of course, that apologists for the system assume that everybody in detention had his finger on the button at the time of capture, so culpability less a question than an obvious truth. Of course, the actual evidence is a bit messier, with evidence of innocent people being taken into this detention limbo. But hey, as long as its not us, why should we care?
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