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Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate
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drew_235
Nov 4, 09 7:17
Post #1 of 23 (360 views)
Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate
Can't Post
Granted I've been a bit out of the loop lately, but listening to NPR this morning on the ride home from work, there was a discussion about the NY House seat (?? I was tired, might have already messed this up) being won by a Democrat. The Democrat defeated a "Conservative Candidate" and the Republican Candidate dropped out last weekend. What the hell is the difference between a conservative and a republican? I used to consider myself in both of those groups - at the same time... Is the conservative more conservative than the republican?
Please clarify.
Thanks
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formerly known as compact_d
"Life is fragile - we are all just a slip or a car crash away from being a very different person."
Just Old Again
Nov 4, 09 7:30
Post #2 of 23 (347 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [drew_235]
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The conservative candidate is the one who thinks that ideology is more important than the actual issues facing his/her constituency, and who'd rather be dead than wrong.
-----------------------------------
Ken Lehner
"We are on our last bag of Life" - the wife
Rob C in FL
Nov 4, 09 7:31
Post #3 of 23 (348 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [drew_235]
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"What the hell is the difference between a conservative and a republican?"
A Republican is someone who is satisfied to remain with the same big-government system we already have. A conservative, OTOH, is someone who advocates remaining with the system that we already have
as a matter of conservative principle
.
Hope this helps. ;)
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
gonehome
Nov 4, 09 8:14
Post #4 of 23 (324 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [drew_235]
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In my state, at the local and state level, most politicians are Democrat and most are conservative.
It's not uncommon for elections to run this way: In the general election there will be no Republican or if there is one, he/she doesn't have a chance. Therefore, if you win the Democtatic Primary, you've virtually been elected. And who usually wins the primary? The Democrat who is the most conservative.
In your situation, it seems like the "Conservative" was an independent in a three candidate election. Maybe a Ross Perot type? Then again, it probably depends on who used the term. If it was the candidiate themself, then perhaps the term has more to do with marketing than ideology.
Rob C in FL
Nov 4, 09 8:21
Post #5 of 23 (318 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Curvy Boy]
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"Then again, it probably depends on who used the term. If it was the candidiate themself, then perhaps the term has more to do with marketing than ideology."
I believe the Conservative Party has a long history in New York.
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
jkca1
Nov 4, 09 8:36
Post #6 of 23 (300 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [drew_235]
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A conservative is a person against big government and against fiscal irresponsibility. Unfortunately they are a dying breed.
"They are all crooks, both sides of the aisle."
gonehome
Nov 4, 09 8:48
Post #7 of 23 (293 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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"
A
Republican
is someone . . .
"
"
A
conservative
, OTOH, is someone . . ."
"I believe the
Conservative
Party . . . "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So this is one of those issues where using a small "c" and a capital "C" mean two different things. Then I would take the OP's question to mean the difference between the Conservative Party and the Republican Party, where I suppose some of the respondents have taken the liberty (to apply humor?) and answered the "conservative" part with the small c.
If so, do you think everyone understands that subtlety?
Just Old Again
Nov 4, 09 9:28
Post #8 of 23 (282 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Curvy Boy]
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In Reply To:
"
A
Republican
is someone . . .
"
"
A
conservative
, OTOH, is someone . . ."
"I believe the
Conservative
Party . . . "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So this is one of those issues where using a small "c" and a capital "C" mean two different things. Then I would take the OP's question to mean the difference between the Conservative Party and the Republican Party, where I suppose some of the respondents have taken the liberty (to apply humor?) and answered the "conservative" part with the small c.
If so, do you think everyone understands that subtlety?
I think the OP was pretty clear when he/she/it made this statement:
"What the hell is the difference between a conservative and a republican?
I used to consider myself in both of those groups - at the same time
"
Pretty sure the OP was referencing ideological bent rather than party affiliation.
-----------------------------------
Ken Lehner
"We are on our last bag of Life" - the wife
trail
Nov 4, 09 9:51
Post #9 of 23 (269 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [jkca1]
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In Reply To:
A conservative is a person against big government and against fiscal irresponsibility. Unfortunately they are a dying breed.
That's just fiscal conservatism.
There's also religious, cultural, and social conservatism, among others.
I think the issue is that there are forces in the Republican party who want candidates to toe the line in all aspects of conservatism before they call themselves a Republican. I.e. you can be a fiscal conservative, but if you're "pro gay" then you're done.
By contrast, Democrats are more....liberal. They'll allow fiscal conservatives (some Blue Dogs) in. They'll definitely allow gun-rights supporters in. They'll let "traditional marriage" people in These are all single-issue eject button issues for Republicans.
I worry that it's the influence of right-wing talk radio, and parts of Fox News. Guys like Limbaugh will eviscerate and ruin Republicans based on single issues. This pushes Republicans politicians to become "Limbaugh Republicans." However Limbaugh's audience is somewhat narrower than the Republican electorate as a whole.
I'm not talking about the Doug-Dede thing. Dede has more than one eject button. She's Republican's Lieberman.
big kahuna
Nov 4, 09 10:10
Post #10 of 23 (262 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [trail]
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By contrast, Democrats are more....liberal. They'll allow fiscal conservatives (some Blue Dogs) in. They'll definitely allow gun-rights supporters in. They'll let "traditional marriage" people in These are all single-issue eject button issues for Republicans.
Until a real hot-button "progressive" issue comes along, and then it's every man (or woman) for himself. This has been demonstrated with cap-and-trade and now with ObamaCare. The war among Dems in Congress over healthcare reform is what's holding up passage of a bill, not anything the Republicans are doing, almost all of whom are solidly lined up against it. In this regards, it seems they're far more stiff-necked than are Pubs.
T.
Rob C in FL
Nov 4, 09 10:22
Post #11 of 23 (256 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Curvy Boy]
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"where I suppose some of the respondents have taken the liberty (to apply humor?) and answered the 'conservative' part with the small c.
If so, do you think everyone understands that subtlety?"
Well, I did include a winking emoticon with my statement, which I don't think was particularly subtle.
I think the OP (who went back and forth between upper- and lowercase) was making the not unreasonable assumption that if people identify with a party that calls itself "Conservative," then they probably will also think of themselves as small-c conservatives. (In similar fashion, most people who profess any sympathy with the Libertarian Party probably have some small-l libertarian tendencies.) Consequently, for purposes of my own half-serious/half-humorous comment in #3, I didn't regard the distinction as pertinent.
But hell, if we're going to get persnickety about case, then I suppose I'd have to say that I'm a "republican," even though I despise the modern Republican Party.
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
Rob C in FL
Nov 4, 09 10:32
Post #12 of 23 (247 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [big kahuna]
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"Until a real hot-button 'progressive' issue comes along, and then it's every man (or woman) for himself. This has been demonstrated with cap-and-trade and now with ObamaCare."
I think the Democrats will be accepting of anyone who is anti-individualist in the economic arena, regardless of that person's stance on social issues. Similarly, the Republicans will accept anyone who is anti-individualist in the social arena, regardless of the person's position on economic issues. (That's how they manage to unite behind a pro-big-government social conservative like GWB.) Note that both parties are fundamentally anti-individualist, which is why they come across as Tweedledum and Tweedledee.
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
saltman
Nov 4, 09 10:36
Post #13 of 23 (244 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [drew_235]
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A Republican is a politician.
big kahuna
Nov 4, 09 10:37
Post #14 of 23 (242 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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The only thing I want out of a politician is that he or she be extremely strong on national defense and foreign policy and supportive of limited government and fiscal responsiblity where it's applicable. I think, however, that the Democrats have an almost uncontrollable itch to control people from birth to death and every place in between, all "for the greater good." Bush and his mushy "compassionate conservative" ideology turned out to be a disaster for Republicans. Both parties were spending like drunken sailors and folks today are worried about the deficit and the costs for all these wonderful social programs that are being envisioned.
T.
saltman
Nov 4, 09 10:59
Post #15 of 23 (232 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [big kahuna]
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The only thing I want out of a politician is that he or she be extremely strong on national defense and foreign policy and supportive of limited government and fiscal responsiblity where it's applicable.
That leaves you with sufficient rationale to hate everyone.
gonehome
Nov 4, 09 11:00
Post #16 of 23 (231 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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Let me pose this:
Does the(a) Conservative Party candidate "fit" in between the(a) Republican and Democratic Candidate OR
to the "right" of a Republican Candidate?
(Use either the specific candidates in the example above, or general party platforms.)
FJB
Nov 4, 09 11:04
Post #17 of 23 (228 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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A conservative, OTOH, is someone who advocates remaining with the system that we already have
as a matter of conservative principle
.
Nice :)
Rob C in FL
Nov 4, 09 11:10
Post #18 of 23 (221 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Curvy Boy]
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The question really involves two dimensions (economic freedom and personal freedom), so I'll answer you in terms of the two-dimensional
Nolan chart
. Based on my limited knowledge of the two candidates under discussion, I would say that in this case the Conservative falls somewhere below
and
to the right of the Republican (i. e., southeast).
EDIT TO ADD: That would put them roughly equidistant from my own position, BTW.
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
(This post was
edited
by Rob C in FL on Nov 4, 09 11:13)
drew_235
Nov 4, 09 17:18
Post #19 of 23 (186 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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Let me pose this:
Does the(a) Conservative Party candidate "fit" in between the(a) Republican and Democratic Candidate OR
to the "right" of a Republican Candidate?
This was the true question that I was trying to ask this morning after getting home from work, but was too tired to properly articulate all of my thoughts into words. One other curious point is that when I looked at the results online, it broke down as follows:
person X - dem xx%
person Y - con xx%
person Z - rep (dropped out)
This break down led me to believe that there was a recognized party called the "Conservative Party", which I was unaware of. I'm from Wisconsin, not New York.
On a more humorous note, I spell checked my original post and then sat there for a minute wondering whether "conservative" and "republican" should be capitalized. In the end, I went with the variety approach, folks picked up on it, and actually folded it into the conversation - wow. :)
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formerly known as compact_d
"Life is fragile - we are all just a slip or a car crash away from being a very different person."
Rob C in FL
Nov 5, 09 7:54
Post #20 of 23 (151 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [drew_235]
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In reply to
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Can't Post
"On a more humorous note, I spell checked my original post and then sat there for a minute wondering whether 'conservative' and 'republican' should be capitalized."
If the adjective refers to a specific party in a specific country, it should be capitalized. If it only refers to a person's political philosophy, it should not (unless, of course, the adjective is based on a person's name, such as "Marxist"). So "Republican" refers to a person belonging to the GOP. OTOH, "republican" refers to someone who believes in government belonging to the people, as opposed to "monarchist."
That's why I observed above that I'm a "republican." In fact, technically, most Democrats are republicans too. After all, they don't believe we should return to a monarchy. ;) Now here come the Obama jokes....
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
big kahuna
Nov 5, 09 8:04
Post #21 of 23 (143 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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Communists (especially those of the Bolshevik persuasion) don't believe in a monarchy ;-) Call him Comrade Barack, dude.
T.
Rob C in FL
Nov 5, 09 8:11
Post #22 of 23 (141 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [big kahuna]
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Ah, but Communists
do
believe in republics. Ever hear of the People's
Republic
of China or the Union of Soviet Socialist
Republics
? It's just that in those systems you have a dictator ruling in the name of the people.
Obviously, the term "republican" (with a small-r) is a very broad category. So even though I acknowledge that I'm a republican, I normally use a more specific label--such as "liberal" or "libertarian"--to distinguish myself from all those Commies, Democrats, and GOPers who also fit within "republicanism." ;)
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Rob Cunningham
http://www.humanactioncourse.info
"Pas d'elle yeux Rhône que nous."
last tri in 83
Nov 5, 09 12:19
Post #23 of 23 (124 views)
Re: Conservative candidate vs. Republican candidate [Rob C in FL]
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You guys are missing the real reason he lost. He's creepy looking.
_____________________________________________
No one appreciates my humor anymore. --Sphere
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